HUEL PERKINS: General Clark, your campaign implies that your combat experience gives you a better understanding of the implications of war, but your political message is confusing.
You have not only praised the president that you now want to defeat but, according to the Arab Institute Voting Guide, in February of 2003, you said this, quote: “Saddam Hussein has these weapons, and so, you know, we're going to go ahead and do this, and the rest of the world has got to get with us,” unquote.
But you have also so far refused to take a firm position on the president's request for more money. Can you tell us exactly where you do stand?
WESLEY CLARK: I'd be happy to tell you where I stand. I think I've been very consistent from the beginning.
Right after 9/11, this administration determined to do bait and switch on the American public. President Bush said he was going to get Osama bin Laden, dead or alive. Instead, he went after Saddam Hussein. He doesn't have either one of them today.
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I've been against this war from the beginning. I was against it last summer, I was against it in the fall, I was against it in the winter, I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now. It was an unnecessary war. There was no imminent threat.
On the other hand, just like Reverend Sharpton said, Bush got all our – the president got all of our troops out there, got them poised, committed the United States to this thing. What he didn't do was he didn't use diplomacy. He didn't use leadership. He didn't bring the rest of the world with it. He should've. There was time to do it. There was no imminent threat. And there is no excuse for his failure of leadership.
You're right, I've been there, and I know that you don't start a military operation, if you know what you're doing, unless you know how you want it to end. This president didn't know how he wanted it to end. He doesn't know what he's doing today.
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IFILL: Carl has a follow-up.
CAMERON: General, there is a long litany of comments from you, both in your time as a former television analyst and then over the course of the last several months. Are we to understand that what you're saying now is that those things you have said that were positive about the war was not what you meant?
CLARK: No, I always – I'm a fair person, Carl. And when this administration's done something right, well, if they were Russians doing something right, Chinese doing something right, French doing something right or even Republicans doing something right…
(LAUGHTER)
… I'm going to praise them.
Now, this country was attacked on 9/11, and it was right that this administration went into Afghanistan. And I supported that war; so did 90 percent of the American people. That Taliban government should have been taken out.
But the failure of this administration was not to put the troops in to finish the job against Osama bin Laden. And you know why they didn't do it? They didn't do it because, all along, their plan was to save those troops to go after Saddam Hussein.
So I support them for what they did right, and I condemn them for what they did wrong.
IFILL: Thank you, General.
IFILL: Very briefly I have to go to General Clark to have you respond to Senator Lieberman. General Clark?
CLARK: Thank you, Gwen.
Well, I wasn't in Congress. I wasn't able to vote on the $87 billion, but I want to make it very clear that I would not have voted on $87 billion. I want to commend John Edwards and John Kerry and those who voted against this resolution.
I didn't believe last year we should have given George Bush a blank check in Iraq. He said he was going to go to the U.N., instead he started a war. Now we're trying to give him another blank check. There's no telling what's going to happen.
He still hasn't come forward with a strategy for how we're going to succeed on the ground in Iraq.
I think the best form of welfare for the troops is a winning strategy. And I think we ought to call on our commander in chief to produce it. And I think he ought to produce it before he gets one additional penny for that war.
CAMERON: General Clark, I suspect you're going to want to comment a little bit on the governor's remarks about the ad and your early support, as he's asserted it.
But your military service in general is considered a large part of the predicate for your candidacy. I wonder if you could take a moment and explain to us why, at the end of your time as the supreme allied commander of NATO, you were not re-upped and why such folks as Retired General Hugh Shelton have suggested you were effectively fired for what he called character and integrity issues.
CLARK: Well, thanks for the opportunity to talk about this.
(LAUGHTER)
We used to call charges like that “McCarthyism” when they came out in the 1950s.
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Now, the simple truth is that Hugh Shelton is an old friend of mine; I've known him for 20 years. But we had a significant disagreement about policy.
I believe the purpose of the United States in Europe was to follow through on our commitments to bring peace to Bosnia and prevent another round of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, in Kosovo.
I believe there were 1.5 million Albanians there who were in danger of being thrown out of their homes and having their lives and property at risk.
Some people in the Pentagon disagreed with me. I went through the Pentagon and recommended we use diplomacy backed by the threat of force. I had the permission of the Pentagon to do that. I worked, I warned, I struggled to prevent a war. And when it finally came down to it, I had to fight it, lead it, and we won it.
But let me tell you two things. Number one, I stand up and fight for what I believe in. And nobody is going to see the United States on my watch humiliated in a military mission because we don't have the gumption to follow through on our requirements.
And number two, when you put American troops in harm's way, you better not do it without a plan and a strategy and the determination that you're going to prevail.
That's what I stood for. We were successful. I received two distinguished service medals, the Presidential Medal of Freedom for that kind of leadership.
Why Hugh Shelton would say that now, I have no idea.
IFILL: General…
CLARK: But if anybody knows, would you please let me know. Thank you.
General Clark, this week you introduced your economic plan in which you said that you would save $2.3 trillion in 10 years by repealing part of President Bush's tax cuts and cutting waste.
But you did not tell us how you would and when you would balance the budget, this budget deficit that you have said is so corrosive. Want to tell us now?
WESLEY CLARK: Well, I'm happy to talk about this. I think that what you've got right now in this country is a real absence of responsible government. This government has lost its bearings.
They came to office with no policies except tax cuts. And they were tax cuts for the wealthy. They said tax cuts would help us. They said tax cuts would bring us jobs; they didn't. They said they'd fix Social Security; they didn't.
This government doesn't have a policy. What we need to do is work on America's needs, and to do that, we need to recapture some of the revenues that were given away in those Bush tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, those making over $200,000 a year…
IFILL: But, General…
CLARK: … and then we need to use them…
IFILL: Forgive me for interrupting, because I would really like for you to be more specific, in the time you have left, about exactly how you would do that.
CLARK: I'm going to give you that answer right now.
What you've got to do is you've got to put this country on a path to fiscal responsibility. That's why I gave the plan of recapturing $2.3 trillion.
I don't have a date to balance the budget, because I think it's important to use some of that money that's recaptured to meet America's urgent needs in education, health care and Social Security. That's what I'm going to do with that money. We're going to use it more wisely, more effectively and be more responsible than this administration's been.
IFILL: General Clark, you heard what Senator Lieberman had to say about you, and you heard what other people said about you, which is that your campaign started fast and then you hit organizational stumbles and that, in fact, you have never been elected anything.
Why start as president?
WESLEY CLARK: Well, you're exactly right, Gwen. In fact, the last election I was in was for home-room student council representative.
(LAUGHTER)
We put our heads down on our desks, the teacher asked us to raise our hand.
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And I voted for my best friend. And after it was over, I said, “Well, you voted for me, right?” He said, “No, I didn't.” He won by one vote.
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I am not up here running for home-room student council representative. I am in this campaign because this country is in one heck of a mess. It's in a mess in Iraq, it's in a mess at home, and it needs strong leadership.
And Americans want leaders who can not only talk the talk but walk the walk. And that's what I have done in my career in the United States Army, and that's why I am here in front of you today.
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I am proud of my service in the United States Army.
Gwen, I fought in Vietnam as a company commander. I came home on a stretcher. I stayed with the United States Army when other people left the service. I worked in the United States Army to make it a great institution.
And I'm proud of the fact that we lived affirmative action in that institution, and we made it one of the best institutions in America for treating every individual with respect and dignity. And that's the spirit I bring to leadership.
We have now reached the point in the debate where each of the candidates will have one minute to sum up the statements of the evening, starting with Senator Kerry.
CLARK: We're at a crucial turning point in American history. We are in trouble. We're in war abroad, and we have a failing economy at home.
I learned in the United States Army, in my military career, how to stand up to dictators. I learned how to put a plan together. I learned how to keep our troops safe and accomplish the mission.
I've put my finger in the chest of a dictator and told him if he didn't shape up, we'd bomb him. And when he didn't shape up, we did. And he's in The Hague now, awaiting trial for war crimes.
But I also learned leadership in the United States Army. I learned that generals don't win wars, soldiers do, that we're all in this together, that a unit is no stronger than every soldier in it, that every soldier in it has got to have the education, training and skills he needs, that you have to have a high code of ethics, that we're all in that together, and that great leaders don't only have plans, they listen to the lead.
I'd like to see an America in which business and political leaders stop just looking out for themselves, but look out for all of us. I'd like to see an America in which business and political leaders understand that ordinary Americans aren't just cogs in the system, they are America.
I'd like to see an America in which business and political leaders make sure that every American gets the education and training he needs to contribute to this country. And if he's not an equal plate and field, we put him there.
CLARK: We can have that America. We can have that America if we make the right choice in this election. It starts by changing the administration in Washington and getting real leadership in our nation's capital.