SEIB: Turning on Iraq to Congressman Kucinich and Reverend Sharpton, you've both been outspoken critics of the war and have said, in fact, you'd bring the troops home. But the fact is that as of now the troops are there, the United States is committed.
Would you vote–will you vote yes or no on the $87 billion? And if the answer is no, what's the message you would send to the troops who are there today?
KUCINICH: The message is now I will not vote for the $87 billion. I think we should support the troops and I think we best support them by bringing them home.
Our troops are at peril there, because of this administration's policy. And I think that the American people deserve to know where every candidate on this stage stands on this issue, because we were each provided with a document–a security document that more or less advised us to stay the course, don't cut and run, commit up to 150,000 troops for five years at a cost of up to $245 billion.
A matter of fact, General Clark was one of the authors of that document that was released in July.
So I think the American people deserve to know that a candidate–and I'm the candidate who led the effort in the House of Representatives challenging the Bush administration's march toward war, I say bring the troops home unequivocally. Bring them home and stop this commitment for $87 billion, which is only going to get us in deeper.
After a while, we're going to be sacrificing our education, our health care, our housing and the future of this nation.
SEIB: Congressman?
KUCINICH: Bring them home.
Congressman Kucinich, you talk often about your family history in this country and your background in the state of Ohio. How do you define “rich” these days?
KUCINICH: Well, I think it's defined when you consider that the top 272,000 taxpayers are getting as much of a benefit under the Bush tax cut as the bottom 129 million. So I think that what's happening in this society is, there is a maldistribution of the wealth.
And I'm disappointed that my fellow colleagues here haven't continued to make the connection between the rising deficit and the war in Iraq. Because unless we commit ourselves to get out of Iraq–get the U.N. in and get the U.S. out–we're going to see rising deficits.
They're talking about spending hundreds of billions of dollars for this war. And if you look at the maldistribution of wealth, it's going to be accelerated by this war.
Are we going to have tax cuts for the wealthy and then ask people later on to increase their taxes? Are going to have the Pentagon budget go to $550 billion within eight years and ask the people to pay more taxes?
I think we have to reorder our priorities. It begins with getting out of Iraq and putting money again into health care, into education, into job creation.
INSANA: General Clark and Congressman Kucinich, Congress has in the past bailed out industries like airlines, like autos, in order to save jobs. There are some in Congress who are worried that there's a looming financial disaster among these government-sponsored entities that provide home mortgages, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and that should something terrible happen there, in the wake of an interest rate problem in this economy, we could see a systemic financial problem that destroys jobs.
How would you deal, General Clark first, with a potential problem at a place like Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac?
KUCINICH: It think it's important to do some analysis as to why people have lost their homes, because unless we have economic policies that are aimed at savings jobs and stopping the loss of jobs and creating new jobs, you could talk about Fannie Mae and other agencies and it will be for naught.
I'm the only one up here on this stage–and I'm, frankly, surprised at my Democratic colleagues that they won't take a firm stand and recognize that NAFTA and the WTO have hurt this country. I've said very clearly that we need to withdraw from NAFTA and the WTO, and that would be my first act as office.
And it's not a choice between trade or no trade. You return to bilateral trade, conditioned on workers' rights, human rights and the environment, and unless you address that issue–there's a $435 billion trade deficit. Unless you address that issue all of these other issues about creation of new housing won't mean an awful lot, even though it's well intended.
BORGER: Well, talking a little bit more about prescription drugs–and this is for Congressman Kucinich and Senator Lieberman.
A very big issue on Capitol Hill, as you well know, is the importation of cheaper prescription drugs from Canada. The drug companies say you should not be able to do this because the industry needs the money in this country for research and development. The Food and Drug Administration also says that these drugs might be unsafe. Senator Lieberman, you first: Are you for the reimportation of drugs from Canada?
BORGER: Well, Congressman Kucinich, we'll give you a chance to answer the question on the importation of drugs from Canada.
KUCINICH: Of course, there ought to be reimportation. But that's beside the point.
The pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies control our health care system. And I'm the only one on this stage who's actually introduced legislation, with Congressman Conyers and McDermott, that provides for a totally new change; that has health care for people, not for profit.
It's called Medicare For All. It's a single-payer program. And it's financed by a 7.7 percent tax paid by employers. And it covers everything. It covers all medically necessary procedures and a wide range of benefits.
And it's kind of surprising to have people on this stage who have plans, including Dr. Dean, that would leave 10 million Americans out. I think it's important that all Americans be covered. And I think that it's important that people receive the ability to have complementary and alternative medicine, to have a prescription drug benefit, to have vision care and dental care and mental health care, to have long-term nursing care all covered under one Medicare For All, single-payer program.
I'm the one who has that plan. I'm the one who's offering it. I'm the only one on this stage who can say that.
And I want say, with the doctor advocating that, I think it's time to get a second opinion.
And to Congressman Kucinich on what needs fixing in health care.
KUCINICH: Well, first of all the Social Security money belongs to Main Street, not to Wall Street. It needs to be said very clearly here that privatization is off the table. There will be no privatization when I'm elected president. I'll block any effort.
Furthermore, none of the other candidates has addressed the real issue here, and that is that people are retiring earlier. They're retiring at age 62. And so we ought to take the retirement age back to 65, take the retirement age back to 65. The money is there.
Right now, the Bush administration is using the surplus to finance tax cuts for the wealthy.
And Social Security, as a matter of fact, is a better investment now than the stock market. There's a higher return. There's guaranteed cost-of-living increases. Privatization you have to worry about the value of your account.
I'm saying that Social Security right now, the retirement age ought to go back to age 65. I challenge every one of my Democratic colleagues to look at the record, look at the trust fund, it's solid through the year 2041, get that money back to workers who are retiring earlier.
SEIB: Let me also speak clearly here to Congressman Kucinich.
Any discussion of trade and everybody leans fairly quickly to China these days. President Bush as well as Democrats are criticizing China for unfair trading practices, for a big trade surplus with the U.S.
Would you today revoke China's most favorite nation trading status? And what would you say to all those voters in the…
KUCINICH: I was not in favor of it.
SEIB: And what would you say to those voters?
KUCINICH: I voted against most favored nation status for China for a number of reasons.
First of all, we have to keep in mind that there has to be some correspondence in trade. There has to be some relationship between what a country sells in America and what it buys form America. And that's not my idea, it's Lester Thurow who's talked about it and other economists who recognize that there has to be some reciprocity.
China right now–we have $100 billion trade deficit with China, and we have an overall trade deficit approaching $500 billion; the exact total is $435 billion. I raised this issue before. Unless we challenge the underlying structure of our trade, this idea of made in the U.S. and sold abroad, what does it mean? $435 billion deficit. We need to cancel NAFTA, cancel the WTO, which makes any changes in NAFTA–WTO–illegal. My friend Dick Gephardt ought to know that, because his name was on the bill that created the WTO.
And we need to go back to bilateral trade that's conditioned on workers' rights, human rights and the environment.
SEIB: Senator Kerry, Congressman Kucinich, Reverend Sharpton just mentioned the Grasso resignation over the compensation package. Does that episode suggest to you there should be some more legal oversight of the exchange or of the way corporate boards are put together?
KUCINICH: Thank you very much. The question of Wall Street and the problems that exist on Wall Street today really go to the center of a debate in this country about wealth and democracy.
We cannot keep our democracy if those who are in charge of handling the engines of our economy are not honest with the American people, are not honest with their shareholders, are not honest with their investors.
That's why there is a role for government here. And that role for government is regulation. That role for government is breaking up the monopolies. That role for government is insisting on public disclosure, insisting on public audits, insisting on restitution whenever someone has been cheated.
You know, when you look at how corporate corruption has cost American workers jobs. I have a card here you'd find interesting. Hewlett Packard laid off 25,700 workers. Its executive's salary went from $1.2 million to $4.1 million. Delta laid off 17,400 workers. The executive salary of the CEO went from $2.1 million to $4.6 million. Tyco went from $11…
WILLIAMS: We'll have to…
KUCINICH: Tyco's executive went from $36 to $71 million. There has to be accountability and there has to be honesty on Wall Street.
WILLIAMS: Have to leave it there, Congressman. We're getting into a little bit of a time crunch as the end of the broadcast nears.
What in office, as president, would be the least popular, most right thing you would do? Again, 30 seconds each.
KUCINICH: Three things come to mind. First, I would take action to stop the federal death penalty.
Second, I would move to cut the Pentagon budget by 15 percent, which would in no way affect adversely our national defense, and put the money into child care.
Third, I would move to create a Department of Peace which would seek to make nonviolence an organizing principle in our society and to work with the nations of the world to make war itself archaic.
The transcript of the entire debate can be found here: September 25 Debate